2002 Limited 4WD

dnp

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Apr 23, 2018
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Sal, I have also been dissatisfied with my 5100s (33-187174) They feel like they have NO rebound circuit, as they will extend as fast as the suspension will unload. At speed on the highway, I have had them extend so quickly over a bump, I could feel the rear tires come off the ground! All that being said, wouldn't ya know that I just ordered replacement shocks about 3 hours before finding/reading this build thread! I have been so pleased with the GX470 suspension I bought from ToyTec, I decided to buy their BOSS rear shocks to go with my OME 2862s on the Sequoia.......but now, I'm questioning if that was a good move.

Do you know when you'll be making a move on your new rear shock selection? I may hold off on the install if you're thinking it'll be relatively soon.

Thanks! (After more than a decade on IH8MUD with my Land Cruisers and a lesser time on Tundra Solutions with my Sequoia, I can't believe I didn't run across this forum until today! It's great to finally find a forum that's dedicated to the often overlooked Sequoia.....although they finally seem to be gaining in popularity!)
 

Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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Sal, I have also been dissatisfied with my 5100s (33-187174) They feel like they have NO rebound circuit, as they will extend as fast as the suspension will unload. At speed on the highway, I have had them extend so quickly over a bump, I could feel the rear tires come off the ground! All that being said, wouldn't ya know that I just ordered replacement shocks about 3 hours before finding/reading this build thread! I have been so pleased with the GX470 suspension I bought from ToyTec, I decided to buy their BOSS rear shocks to go with my OME 2862s on the Sequoia.......but now, I'm questioning if that was a good move.

Do you know when you'll be making a move on your new rear shock selection? I may hold off on the install if you're thinking it'll be relatively soon.

Thanks! (After more than a decade on IH8MUD with my Land Cruisers and a lesser time on Tundra Solutions with my Sequoia, I can't believe I didn't run across this forum until today! It's great to finally find a forum that's dedicated to the often overlooked Sequoia.....although they finally seem to be gaining in popularity!)

The BOSS rear shocks useds FJ Cruiser shocks, so you'll be limited in the same way as the 5100s. Can't tell you how much since the specs are not posted. In any case, the longest FJ Cruiser shocks I have found are 24.5" long, which is still inadequate for the sequoia suspension travel.

My setup is, somewhat, unique with upgraded rear control arms. I have more down suspension travel than most Sequoias. Based on what I found out on the FB Sequoia group, Icon 2.0 rear shocks for LC80/100s might be a viable shock solution for you since you're fitted with 2862s with OEM rear control arms.

I have 5125s on hand, which are universal application 5100 shocks, but it's not a drop in shock. The shock eye of 5125 is too small (5/8" vs 3/4"). As a result, I've had to modify the shock bushing with modified energy suspension bushings with the right 3/4" eye opening.

Go with the Icons or stay tuned.

I hope to have this all fitted and tested by the end of the week and post up what I find.

IMG_20180423_185848.jpg
 
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mulze42

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Oct 10, 2017
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Sal I find you all over the place online.... especially in regards to the roof racks. So I'm now torn because I have come across SSO's GX470 rack which looks awesome and doable, Big Tree's rack looks really good and then there is yours. I saw that you mentioned on GXOR that you would do it again with 15 series extrusion so now my question. If you were to re-do it would it look something like this:

Qty 5 - 1530 x 42- 5/16 pieces
Qty 20 - 4302
Qty 40 - 3386
Qty 2 - 1/2" x 12" x 12" ABS sheets for the spacer
Qty 1 - Wind Fairing

Total budget about $300-$350?

I'm really torn on which way to go because you are right that the factory lines do look good but a SSO / Prinsu type looks good too.
 

Sal R.

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Sal I find you all over the place online.... especially in regards to the roof racks. So I'm now torn because I have come across SSO's GX470 rack which looks awesome and doable, Big Tree's rack looks really good and then there is yours. I saw that you mentioned on GXOR that you would do it again with 15 series extrusion so now my question. If you were to re-do it would it look something like this:

Qty 5 - 1530 x 42- 5/16 pieces
Qty 20 - 4302
Qty 40 - 3386
Qty 2 - 1/2" x 12" x 12" ABS sheets for the spacer
Qty 1 - Wind Fairing

Total budget about $300-$350?

I'm really torn on which way to go because you are right that the factory lines do look good but a SSO / Prinsu type looks good too.

Don't count on prinsu to make one for the Sequoia. They made it clear a long time ago they weren't going to pursue it, despite having made one already.

Your list sounds about right.
 

mulze42

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Oct 10, 2017
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Don't count on prinsu to make one for the Sequoia. They made it clear a long time ago they weren't going to pursue it, despite having made one already.

Your list sounds about right.

Yup, I have emailed them twice stating there was very strong interest in having a Sequoia rack done but they have come back both times and politely saying f-off. If CORE didn't collapse I would have been game for one of those so needless to say there is a market for a full length rack utilizing a modular cross bar setup with 8020 cross bars.
 

Sal R.

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Yup, I have emailed them twice stating there was very strong interest in having a Sequoia rack done but they have come back both times and politely saying f-off. If CORE didn't collapse I would have been game for one of those so needless to say there is a market for a full length rack utilizing a modular cross bar setup with 8020 cross bars.

There's a recent poll on the FB TSOR group about a new GB on roof racks. Might want to check it out.
 

mulze42

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Oct 10, 2017
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There's a recent poll on the FB TSOR group about a new GB on roof racks. Might want to check it out.

I saw that during my daily creep sesh of the page. Paul Stoute said he said he would keep us non-FB people updated on the forum but in the meantime I will continue my debate of using your great setup or wait out the full rack-setup. Decisions decisions, though I think your setup plus new rear shocks will cover the price of getting a full roof rack so that's the route I'm leaning towards.
 

dstgean

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Dec 1, 2017
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Sal, is the length of the upper and lower control arms unique to the Sequoia? Will FJ, Land Cruiser, or 4Runner models work or is Calfab the only game in town? Looks like Jim Smola put some lowers from Rokmen. Any big differences?
 
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Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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Sal, is the length of the upper and lower control arms unique to the Sequoia? Will FJ, Land Cruiser, or 4Runner models work or is Calfab the only game in town? Looks like Jim Smola put some lowers from Rokmen. Any big differences?

No clue if arms from other models would work. Jim was using lower arms from an FJ Cruiser, which I understand, is not available anymore or something to that effect.

Califab is the only one making Sequoia-specific arms.
 

Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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MODIFICATION: Bilstein 5125 Rear Shocks

GOAL:
Verify shock dimensions before getting spendy with custom rear shocks for the Sequoia.

PURPOSE:
This is research and development. Custom shocks are expensive and before I drop the cash on it, I want to make sure I've got the right numbers.

Given the details already laid out in some previous posts, I was guided by helpful FB TSOR members towards the Bilstein 5125s, specifically 33-230375 and 33-230429.

Both shocks have:
Shock travel: 11.2"
Compressed length: 17.1"
Extended length: 28.3"
Cost per: $72

The difference between the two lies in the valving.
x375 is valved 255/70
x429 is valved 360/80

This means is that x375 is valved similar to the popular "Sequoia" shock upgrade, FJ Cruiser 5100, 33-187174, and x429 is invariably stiffer.

I had no basis to determine which would be the better valve rate, so I err'ed in the side of conservatism and selected the x375. I chose the x375 because I wanted a plush ride. This is not a race car.

MATERIALS:
Bilstein 5125, model number 33-230375 (qty. 2)
Prothane Pivot Bushing Kit 19-601
Washers with 3/4" ID (qty. 12)

DURATION: 5 hours

COST: $170

HOW-TO:
First let's highlight the differences between the 5100 and the 5125.
2018-04-28 14_34_29.jpg

Other than the length, the lower shock eye mounting for the 5125 is noticeably different from the 5100.

Out of the box, the 5125 eye opening is 5/8" compared to the 5100s 3/4" and will not work.

Additionally, The shock lower eye bushing is smaller on the 5125 vs 5100 (width 1-3/8" vs 1-3/4", diameter 1-3/8 vs 2-1/8").

To mount the 5125, the shock eye needs to be modified to accept a 3/4" pin.

Initially, I tried to bore out the rubber bushing, but that didn't work out. So, now enter the Prothane bushings.
bushings.jpg

Comparing the OEM 5125 bushing to the Prothane bushing, you'll find that the OEM bushing tapers toward the center.
2018-04-23 17_26_38.jpg

To be able to use the Prothane bushing on the 5125, it, too, needs to be tapered down.

5 minutes on the belt sander and voila:
2018-04-23 17_25_17.jpg

2018-04-23 17_25_36.jpg

Because the 5125 shock mount width is less than the 5100 width, you need the washers to fill in the width of the axle mounting pin.
2018-04-28 14_58_16.jpg

There are lots of documentation in rear shock installation, so I'm not going to cover that here.

Comparison 5100 vs 5125 max droop.
2018-04-28 15_00_38.jpg

All buttoned up with limit straps dialed in.
2018-04-28 16_32_37.jpg

25 mile drivability test results:
I hate to say this, but the 5125s actually rode pretty nice, even with all the armor and additional 300 lbs of gear over my EDC gear. I took it down the worst roads I know of nearby at 50 mph and it actually felt controlled, relatively speaking. The jarring feeling was gone. The compression/rebound was comfortable. The difference was night and day. I was so disturbed about how "good" the ride quality was, I made multiple passes to check fade and whatnot. I was shockingly (hehe) surprised how well it handled the washboard-like street.

However, given the weight I was carrying, the shock fades quickly. After an hour or so of highway driving, it gets squirelly.

Some installation notes:
Given my setup, I've knew already that the panhard (aka lateral control bar) was the limiting component to my downtravel. Considering that I have more travel than the Dobinsons can allow, it didn't bother me all that much.

However, I realized on this install as I was cycling the suspension w/ the 5125s installed w/o rear coils, is that the panhard bar was limiting my uptravel on the driver's side. I could not hit the bumpstop with on the drivers side with the 5125 completely drooped. To fully cycle upward on the drivers side, I had to either raise the passenger side shock or disconnect the panhard bar.

I guess that's a problem for another day...
 
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Sal R.

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TECH: Sequoia Rear Shock Dimension and Data

RESULTS:
I've cycled the suspension from droop to stuffed with the 5125s fitted and verified that the following dimension data are the proper shock dimensions for those using OME 286x (2860, 2861, 2862, etc.) rear coils (up to 480mm free height), even with OEM rear control arms.

At stuff, you're not bottom out and at droop, you're not over-extending the shock.

Data:
Shock travel: 11.2"
Compressed length maximum: 17.1"
Extended length minimum: 28.3"
Mount Style: Stem-eye w/ 3/4" opening, 1-3/4" wide, 2-1/8" diameter

Using the Dobinson rear coils as a basis, the following are the supported load used for proper valving:
Carried Load per spring: 1300 lbs
Spring Rate: 212 lb/in
 
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dnp

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Apr 23, 2018
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TECH: Sequoia Rear Shock Dimension and Data

RESULTS:
I've cycled the suspension from droop to stuffed with the 5125s fitted and verified that the following dimension data are the proper shock dimensions for those using OME 286x (2860, 2861, 2862, etc.) rear coils (up to 480mm free height), even with OEM rear control arms.

At stuff, you're not bottom out and at droop, you're not over-extending the shock.

Data:
Shock travel: 11.2"
Compressed length maximum: 17.1"
Extended length minimum: 28.3"
Mount Style: Stem-eye w/ 3/4" opening, 1-3/4" wide, 2-1/8" diameter

Using the Dobinson rear coils as a basis, the following are the supported load used for proper valving:
Carried Load per spring: 1300 lbs
Spring Rate: 212 lb/in
Sal, just so I’ll have a frame of reference, can you tell me the points on the 5125 that were used to measure compressed / extended length. I’d like to compare those dimensions to the BOSS shocks that showed up Friday. Thanks.
 

Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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Sal, just so I’ll have a frame of reference, can you tell me the points on the 5125 that were used to measure compressed / extended length. I’d like to compare those dimensions to the BOSS shocks that showed up Friday. Thanks.

From the bottom side of the bushing washer to the center of the shock eye mounting pin.

This specified length for compressed and extended measurements for a given shock.
 

dnp

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Apr 23, 2018
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From the bottom side of the bushing washer to the center of the shock eye mounting pin.

This specified length for compressed and extended measurements for a given shock.
Thanks for the reply. That appears to be somewhat longer than the BOSS shocks I got (I measured them last night before you responded, and they're exactly 28" from end of eye to end of stud, making them a good bit shorter.) That being said, and speaking to valving: not only are my original 5100s too short, but they seem to be valved wrong for a vehicle of the Sequoia's weight. The bump on the rear seems to be fine, but the rebound is, well, it seems to have been left out of the shocks! Unlike the other Bilsteins I have on other vehicles, they seem to be able to extend as quickly as the suspension unloads! Seriously, they almost feel like they have no rebound valving!

The reason I'm mentioning this is because you compared the valving in the 5125s to the same 5100s I have. Granted, the extra length on the 5125s will be great for extra travel for off-road articulation, but how do they feel to you for on-road control? Mine feel like about a 1990 Town Car in the rear (when going over large humps). VERY bouncy overall, and I have the added problem with hitting full extension on the shocks!

Bottom line: I agree the extra travel will be a big benefit in not hitting full-extension, but if the valving is the same as the 5100s, that's why I'm asking questions about control. Granted, increased bump valving of the other 5125 part number could cause it to be rough, and that could be a worse problem.

Just wanted to see your thoughts.

Thanks,
dnp
 

Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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Thanks for the reply. That appears to be somewhat longer than the BOSS shocks I got (I measured them last night before you responded, and they're exactly 28" from end of eye to end of stud, making them a good bit shorter.) That being said, and speaking to valving: not only are my original 5100s too short, but they seem to be valved wrong for a vehicle of the Sequoia's weight. The bump on the rear seems to be fine, but the rebound is, well, it seems to have been left out of the shocks! Unlike the other Bilsteins I have on other vehicles, they seem to be able to extend as quickly as the suspension unloads! Seriously, they almost feel like they have no rebound valving!

The reason I'm mentioning this is because you compared the valving in the 5125s to the same 5100s I have. Granted, the extra length on the 5125s will be great for extra travel for off-road articulation, but how do they feel to you for on-road control? Mine feel like about a 1990 Town Car in the rear (when going over large humps). VERY bouncy overall, and I have the added problem with hitting full extension on the shocks!

Bottom line: I agree the extra travel will be a big benefit in not hitting full-extension, but if the valving is the same as the 5100s, that's why I'm asking questions about control. Granted, increased bump valving of the other 5125 part number could cause it to be rough, and that could be a worse problem.

Just wanted to see your thoughts.

Thanks,
dnp

I wouldn't expect too much out of the x375 off-road. It's comfortable on the street with crap roads, but it's too lightly valved for off-road use where spring control is key.

I wouldn't trust these shocks on a downhill descent over a moderately rutted out road to keep the rear planted without unnecessary oscillations.

The travel is nice, but safety comes into question if the rear is practically twerking on descent.

It's a good street shock for aesthetic purposes, IMO. The on road control is okay even with added weight of the armor and everyday gear. I don't think I would trust it either if I was towing something on the road.
 
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Sal R.

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Sal. Just so I understand, the only reason the limit straps are needed for you is because you are using the Califab lower control arms which are adjustable? I've been creeping on the FB group (refuse to logon so I can't comment) but have followed the progress and noticed one guy just installed Icon rear shocks with his 2682s so his solution would be a reasonable solution for us FJC 5100s folks.

Edit: As of today it appears that you guys are still working out a solution. Will keep observing and thank you for bringing this to the forefront.

It appears that the LC100 icons are no more than 25" long extended. I wouldn't recommend them for OME coils if you're looking to maximize your articulation with rebound control.

IMG_20180503_082129.jpg
 
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mulze42

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Oct 10, 2017
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It appears that the LC100 icons are no more than 25" long extended. I wouldn't recommend them for OME coils if you're looking to maximize your articulation.

View attachment 1224

So back to the drawing board then... thanks for doing this research. So this is where my incompetence comes in. The Bilstein right now with the 2682 is fully extended as it sits in the parking lot. I do plan on towing a 18' bowrider (4000lb) max with it and hit a few fire roads (sans boat but with some gear in the back). I'm worried that I might get bad results without the ability to cycle the shock a little bit. From what it appears the OME shock 60020L that Josh Embry has or the Bilstein that you recently tested would be the best option as of right now. Does that appear to be correct?

Also! I have my 1530 extrusions in from T-Nutz and the ABS. I just need to get the ABS templated for the riser and cut (going to use my CNC I built) and then load it up. What I like about the larger extrusions is that if I ever wanted to I can take Front Runner accessories and plop them on since their standard is a 8mm bolt for their T-track.
 

Leon M

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May 2, 2018
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I've only glanced at this thread but wanted to say that your build is an inspiration for me! Can't wait to start modding and begin pestering/asking your questions about your build.
 

Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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Best shocks to use with LC100 OME rear coil springs 2"-5" of lift, off-the-shelf.

Dobinson shocks:
GS59-685: armored rear, oversized full size spare, geared to the teeth.
GS59-575: Stock rear, oversized full size spare, with fair amount of gear.

***

Thanks to Jim Smola's efforts, he was able to spec out the above shocks. Given their application, I backed out the applicability best suited for a specific carry weight.

Both shocks are:
17.01" compressed
28.74" extended
11.73" shock travel
Stem and eye fitment, may need shims on the lower shock mount.
2.5" smooth body gas shocks

The -685 shock is for LC80 with 6-7" of lift with a carry weight of 220-880lbs (C59-311, -317, -319).

The -575 shock is for 2010-2018 T4Rs with 2-3.5" of lift with a carry weight of 0-600 lbs (C59-675V, -677V).

The -575 provides a softer ride, respectively speaking.

Oddly enough, both shocks are "long travel" applications for the 80 and T4R.
 
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