2002 Limited 4WD

mulze42

Known Member
Oct 10, 2017
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Good to know. I still need to install my rear diff breather but apparently we haven't decided to leave the lower 30's in Wisconsin so maybe next week.
 

Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
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San Diego
With the completion of the rear diff breather mod, finally got around to this mod.

The removal and replacement of the rear bumper left my gas and vent lines exposed to debris kicked up by the tire.

If I hadn't sold my bumpers, I would've probably salvaged it off the rear bumper. Oh well.

IMG_20180408_124757.jpg

With some left over rubber mats cut to shape, came up with this cheap simple cover. Time will tell if this holds up in this location. Worked out great up front, so far.

IMG_20180408_124838.jpg

IMG_20180408_124916.jpg

One more thing checked off for summit prep.

IMG_20180408_125142.jpg
 

Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
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MODIFICATION: Dobinson Rear Coil Springs

GOAL:
Upgrade to a better spring that can handle the added load, but minimize rear lift.

PURPOSE:
My build is all about being low slung and minimizing lift. Up until recently, there were no Sequoia-specific springs. Had to "borrow" from the Land Cruiser 100-series crowd. Thankfully, Dobinson stepped up and created an offering.

MATERIALS:
Dobinson Rear Coil Springs C59-345 (425mm free height, 17mm wire, 212 lb/in spring rate)

DURATION: 2 hours

COST: $195

HOW-TO:
Lots of documentation on this already.

Basically:
  1. Jack up car and put on stands supported at the frame
  2. Support axle using jack
  3. Remove bolt from lower shocks and remove shocks from pin at the axle point
  4. Lower jack to droop the axle
  5. Replace springs
The Dobinson coils have a "similar" free height as the OEM springs, but has thicker wire and a higher spring rate to carry an additional load. Dobinson advertises a 1.75" lift.

The following are my results ground to fender through wheel centerline (34s@38psi measured actual):

Before: 37-1/8"
After: 38"

Configuration is in daily driver mode. Everyday-carry gear, armor, and spare. Mission accomplished!

This netted almost an inch of lift. It's a good alternative for folks looking to level their ride.

IMG_20180413_130132734.jpg

IMG_20180413_133819238.jpg
 
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Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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MODIFICATION: Califab Rear Upper and Lower Control Arms

GOAL:
Reinforce the rear control arms and improve articulation.

PURPOSE:
I've been lucky that I haven't bent my lower arms yet over rocks I could not bypass. So when I saw these arms become available for the Sequoia, I jumped at the chance despite that fact that I probably should be fixing other shit.

MATERIALS:
Califab rear upper and lower controls arms
M14 washers (qty. 15)

DURATION: 3 hours

COST: $525

HOW-TO:
The remove and replace is straightforward.
  1. Jack up car and put on stands supported at the frame
  2. Support axle using jack
  3. Disconnect abs wire supports on DS/PS upper control arm
  4. Disconnect brake line support bracket from DS upper control arm
  5. Disconnect parking brake brackets from DS/PS lower control arm
  6. Move through each arm and remove and replace
Upper control arm:
IMG_20180413_104307063.jpg

Lower control arm:
IMG_20180413_093609840.jpg

I set the Califab arm lengths to OEM lengths. My alignment was good and tires were wearing out evenly. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

To complete the install of the Califab arms, you need some M14 washers to act as shims since the heim joints are not as wide as OEM.

Upper arm shims:
IMG_20180413_110400036.jpg

Lower arm shims:
IMG_20180413_110341328_HDR.jpg

Installed:
IMG_20180413_110356094.jpg

2018-04-20 11_52_36.jpg

As you can see, the zerk fittings are faced down and exposed.

As a result, rear lower control arm skids just jumped up in my priority list.
 
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Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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TECH: Dial in the Rear Suspension

GOAL:
Check clearances for stuffing 34s in the rear, size the bumpstops, and take measurements for spring/shock applications.

PURPOSE:
I have had the Bilstein 5100s, PN: 33-187174, for a few years now. Considering they were for lifted FJ Cruisers, I've often questioned they're actual performance considering it was a popular mod and everyone says that "it's all good."

Overall, I've never been happy with the Bilsteins and I've pondered on what to get, but with no measurements, it's hard to find a shock that could possibly work.

Add in the fact that I've never checked clearances with the 34s in the rear, it was time to get off my laurels (finally) and stamp this out.

DURATION: 2 hours

TEST SUMMARY:

The idea is to cycle the rear suspension from full stuff to the bumpstops to max droop and measure the required spring and shock lengths.

I, basically,...
  1. Remove the rear coils
  2. Unbolted the shock from the lower pin
  3. Cycle the suspension using jack
Stuffed on bumpstops:
IMG_20180413_123523414.jpg

IMG_20180413_122442508_HDR.jpg

At max droop:
IMG_20180413_124721757.jpg

RESULTS:
With the Califab arms installed, I found that the downtravel limiting component was the panhard bar. To a lesser extent, the parking brake cable. Not much extra slack there.

For springs, all measurements are from the bottom of the rubber isolator to the perch on the axle.

For shocks, all measurements are from the metal mount surface to the pin centerline on the axle.

At bump:
Compressed Spring length: 7-3/8"
Compressed Shock length: 17-5/8"

Max droop:
Extended Spring length: 20-3/8"
Extended Shock length: 29-3/4"

OEM/Dobinson rear coils:
Extended Shock length: 26-1/2"

As a result of this test, it confrmed my suspicion that the 5100s are completely inadequate as a shock replacement. Even when using OEM/Dobinson rear springs, the 33-187174 5100 shock is too short and is constantly using up the entirety of its length long before the OEM springs fully extend.

Thankfully, the bumpstops do not need to be modified for the 34s (295/70r18). There is plenty of clearance to stuff 35s in the wheel well with margin using OEM bumpstops.

That's one less thing to worry about.

In short, to maximize articulation, in theory, you need a spring 20-3/8" tall that can collapse to 7-3/8" mated with a shock that has a compressed length of 17-5/8" and extended length of 29-3/4". A linear spring probably could achieve that. A progressive spring might not, especially one that tall.

Probably will need the Califab links to achieve these numbers since the OEM rubber bushings tend to bind and limit articulation, much like what the OEM panhard is doing at the moment. You could probably achieve another couple of inches with a heim'ed and polyurethane panhard bar...
 
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Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
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TL;DR 5100 rear shocks, or any FJ Cruiser shock, are not at all "good" for the Sequoia. And shame on you if you still recommend them after seeing this post.

So, just HOW BAD are FJ 5100 shocks (33-187174) on Sequoias?

I'm glad you asked because here's some tech for you.

Dobinson coil length: 16.7"
Dobinson installed coil length: 11"

5100 extended length: 23.5"
5100 installed length: 21.375" (measured from upper mounting surface to eye center)

When the suspension cycles, the spring can potentially extend +5.7". Meanwhile, the 5100 can only extend +2.125".

In an OEM/Dobinson application, the 5100 is at 91% of its spec length.

What this means for you OME 286x users with >2" of lift is that your 5100 is fully extended all the time, even sitting in a parking lot.
 
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Sal R.

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Apr 6, 2017
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TL;DR LC100 rear shocks are also short for use on the Sequoia.

So I've addressed the FJ Cruiser 5100s are not a good shock for Sequoia.

What about Land Cruiser 100-series shocks?

Well...

Dobinson coil length: 16.7"
Dobinson installed coil length: 11"

Bilstein 5100 extended 23.5"
Bilstein 5100 installed: 21.375"

OME 60002/60003 extended: 24.09"
OME 60002/60003 installed: 21.375"

You're better off than 5100s, but not by much. At least, you have some usable travel than 5100s. Because the spring potential travel is +5.7" and the shock travel is 2.715", you'll max out the OME shock before you max out the spring.

So for you OME 286x users with >2" of lift, your near or at fully extended all the time while parked.

A viable option are LC80 series shocks, but may still limit articulation for taller springs like 2860, 2861, 2863, &2863J.

OME 60020L/600071L extended: 26.5"

Confirmed that LC80 shocks are also a stem and eye fitment.

However, these are valved for LC80 springs with rates 250-320 lbf/in, whereas LC100 shocks are valved for 220-300 lbf/in.

So, LC80-series shocks is a better fit, but will be a stiffer ride.

Additionally, a Nissan Patrol Y60, Y61 shock might also work, but it would seem that it's and eye to eye fitment. As a result, an adaptor would be needed.

OME 60015L extended: 28.19"

However, these shocks are valved for springs rated 290-470 lbf/in. So they're even stiffer than LC80 OME shocks.
 
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dstgean

Active Member
Dec 1, 2017
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http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/bilstein_5125.cfm

Some vendors show extended and compressed length so you can make a better choice. No affiliation etc. Although I see several part numbers that are close to your requirements, you might have to keep searching for a longer travel shock if you don't want to install limit straps to save shocks from topping out.
 
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Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
311
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San Diego
http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/bilstein_5125.cfm

Some vendors show extended and compressed length so you can make a better choice. No affiliation etc. Although I see several part numbers that are close to your requirements, you might have to keep searching for a longer travel shock if you don't want to install limit straps to save shocks from topping out.

Thanks for the info. I have some 5125s on order already that might work. It's en route and will report back on what I find.

The shock I ordered would work, but it would be too long for my build. It would sure help fellows with super tall springs like the OME 2863, though.

I don't know if I can get away from using limit straps. I want to eek out every last inch of suspension travel, but I don't want the shock as the downtravel limiter.
 
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Nisken

Active Member
Dec 12, 2017
43
5
8
35
Icon will make you custom rear shocks, all you need to do is give them your measurements. They quoted me $150 a shock. they will do the same for a front suspension vehicle. I personally use LC springs and FJ rear Bilsteins because that's what is commonly used. However, i noticed after installing my rear springs that my rear Bilsteins would now reach full travel after going over a small speed bump. My intention is to eventually customize the suspension via Icon, possibly matching everything to the Dobinson suspension, assuming Dobinsons doesn't put together a suspension kit by then.

Also, consider using your new arms to correct your wheel base and drive-line angle if you didn't plan to do so already, correct geometry can make a huge difference. I agree that someone needs to produce an adjustable panhard bar. Good work! Glad to see someone who went with Dobinsons.

For reference, in case some one searches this topic someday:
REAR SUSPENSION
Lower control arms, adjust wheelbase
Upper control arms, adjust pinion angle
Panhard bar, locate rear axle

Would be awesome if someone made a complete kit specifically for our trucks. I know a lot of guys wouldn't bother with all of this but proper geometry can save driveshaft, rear diffs, tires, and handling.
 

Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
311
177
43
San Diego
Icon will make you custom rear shocks, all you need to do is give them your measurements. They quoted me $150 a shock. they will do the same for a front suspension vehicle. I personally use LC springs and FJ rear Bilsteins because that's what is commonly used. However, i noticed after installing my rear springs that my rear Bilsteins would now reach full travel after going over a small speed bump. My intention is to eventually customize the suspension via Icon, possibly matching everything to the Dobinson suspension, assuming Dobinsons doesn't put together a suspension kit by then.

Also, consider using your new arms to correct your wheel base and drive-line angle if you didn't plan to do so already, correct geometry can make a huge difference. I agree that someone needs to produce an adjustable panhard bar. Good work! Glad to see someone who went with Dobinsons.

For reference, in case some one searches this topic someday:
REAR SUSPENSION
Lower control arms, adjust wheelbase
Upper control arms, adjust pinion angle
Panhard bar, locate rear axle

Would be awesome if someone made a complete kit specifically for our trucks. I know a lot of guys wouldn't bother with all of this but proper geometry can save driveshaft, rear diffs, tires, and handling.

The plan is a custom shock once I've gathered all the dimensions. I wouldn't hold my breath about Dobinson putting out a shock application.

I've got loading requirements, and spring height with rates. With the shock dims on hand, can get a properly valved shock tailored to the weight of the Sequoia with armor and gear.

Because my build is low slung, there has no real change to my pinion angles. I don't suffer from the pitfalls of lifting a vehicle. So, no need to adjust the control arm lengths at this time. My tires wear evenly and there are no unwanted vibrations at all speeds up to 90mph.

IMG_20180417_121739.jpg

Rumor mill has it that Califab might make a panhard for 1gen Sequoias.
 
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Shawntt17

New Member
Oct 6, 2017
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I don't have many pictures, but the process was simple enough and there are lots of DIY documentation on laying down fiberglass, which is what I used to create the enclosure.

View attachment 614

When you remove the rear inner driver's side trim panel, you'll find that the cubby is held in place using permanently plastic welded buttons. I cut at the buttons carefully to separate the cubby enclosure from the rest of the trim panel. I retained as much of the button "body" so I could fasten everything together later.

I, then, used the cubby enclosure as a template for the sub body and laid down fiberglass with the face closed up to mount the sub. I, initially, wrapped the box in leather (as pictured above), but tore it out soon after to wrap the whole thing in Dynamat to improve sound quality, in addition to the trim panel and surrounding sheet metal body (the whole assembly rattled like crazy once the sub is driving).

When I was done, I assembled the sub into the trim enclosure with pig tails to easily connect it to the amp, secured the trim cubby back to the trim panel using short self tapping screws and buttoned everything up.

The amp has been in the recess since it was installed four years ago. Its been thru Arizona summer heat and I have had no issues.


In this pic I cant tell did you leave the plastic box or just use it as a mold. I have mine all apart and have been debating on weather or not I want to just fiberglass the outside and inside of the plastic box to retain the mounting locations, or just use it for a mold. I am curious as to what you decided to do.
Thanks
 

Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
311
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San Diego
In this pic I cant tell did you leave the plastic box or just use it as a mold. I have mine all apart and have been debating on weather or not I want to just fiberglass the outside and inside of the plastic box to retain the mounting locations, or just use it for a mold. I am curious as to what you decided to do.
Thanks

I separated the cubby "box" from the trim panel by carefully cutting circular, plastic welded, tabs on the backside and molded the fiberglass enclosure to fit inside.

Once the glass was cured, I wrapped it in dynamat, stuffed the sub enclosure into the cubby box, and reattached the cubby/sub box assembly to the panel using short self-tapping screws.

I did reuse the cubby box to keep the sub box in place.

If I had to it all over again, I would not bother reinstalling the plastic cubby box and do away with it completely.

I'd set the sub box where it needed to sit. Secure it with some brackets and hardware to the sheetmetal body, and put back the trim on top of it.

Having the sub box assembled with the big trim panel makes it an incredible pain to remove when I need to get under there.
 
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Shawntt17

New Member
Oct 6, 2017
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I separated the cubby "box" from the trim panel by carefully cutting circular, plastic welded, tabs on the backside and molded the fiberglass enclosure to fit inside.

Once the glass was cured, I wrapped it in dynamat, stuffed the sub enclosure into the cubby box, and reattached the cubby/sub box assembly to the panel using short self-tapping screws.

I did reuse the cubby box to keep the sub box in place.

If I had to it all over again, I would not bother reinstalling the plastic cubby box and do away with it completely.

I'd set the sub box where it needed to sit. Secure it with some brackets and hardware to the sheetmetal body, and put back the trim on top of it.

Having the sub box assembled with the big trim panel makes it an incredible pain to remove when I need to get under there.

Awesome thank you, this is exactly what I was wondering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
311
177
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San Diego
MODIFICATION: Rear Limit Straps

GOAL:
Limit the downward articulation to keep the rear coils from falling out.

PURPOSE:
With the advent of longer shocks, it donned on me that without a swaybar connected, the rear suspension with the Califab rear control arms has more droop travel than the length of Dobinson coils. Left unchecked, it could prove problematic.

MATERIALS:
Clevis (qty. 2)
10" 3-Ply Strap (qty. 2)
Steel Sleeve (qty. 2)
Grade 8, 1/2" diameter bolt, 4-1/2" long (qty. 2)
Grade 8 1/2" washers (qty. 4)
Grade 8 1/2" bolts (qty. 4)

DURATION: 4 hours

COST: $100

HOW-TO:
Set the length down to the absolute lowest limit to keep the spring from falling out. It's kinda the point, right?

All in all, straightforward.

Basically:
  1. Remove rear coils
  2. Cycle suspension up and down to look for an open spot to mount sleeve
  3. Prep the area
  4. Tack sleeve on frame
  5. Install clevis
  6. Install strap
  7. Bolt to lower control arm
  8. Set height limit on the clevis
  9. Cycle suspension up and down to check for interferences
  10. Finish welds
  11. Re-assemble
Here's where the sleeve was mounted:
2018-04-20 10_42_56.jpg

Droop down to lower control arm
2018-04-20 10_41_48.jpg

To mount onto the lower control arm, I replaced the lower control arm bolt with a longer grade 8 1/2" bolt and sandwiched it to the control arm retaining bolt.
IMG_20180421_122456327.jpg
 
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mulze42

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Oct 10, 2017
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Sal. Just so I understand, the only reason the limit straps are needed for you is because you are using the Califab lower control arms which are adjustable? I've been creeping on the FB group (refuse to logon so I can't comment) but have followed the progress and noticed one guy just installed Icon rear shocks with his 2682s so his solution would be a reasonable solution for us FJC 5100s folks.

Edit: As of today it appears that you guys are still working out a solution. Will keep observing and thank you for bringing this to the forefront.
 
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Sal R.

Very Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2017
311
177
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San Diego
Sal. Just so I understand, the only reason the limit straps are needed for you is because you are using the Califab lower control arms which are adjustable? I've been creeping on the FB group (refuse to logon so I can't comment) but have followed the progress and noticed one guy just installed Icon rear shocks with his 2682s so his solution would be a reasonable solution for us FJC 5100s folks.

Edit: As of today it appears that you guys are still working out a solution. Will keep observing and thank you for bringing this to the forefront.

I'm using limit straps so I can test/install shocks longer than my springs can allow before falling out. Even then, ill be installing the longest shock allowable so I maximize my articulation. In a situation like that, limit straps are a must.

The links are adjustable, but that's to adjust caster and pinion angles. The Califab links added another 3-4" of downtravel over OEM making the panhard bar the limiting component.

With OEM links, the rubber bushings react to restrict travel, which is why I believe limit straps won't be necessary.

My conversation with Reed regarding the LC80/100 icon rear shocks leads me to believe that it might fit the bill for OME users with OEM links. The shock extended length looks to be about 25-25.5" and he did not have to jack the axle to fit the lower shock eye.
 
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